This season got off to a rough technical start. No other way to put it.
We recorded our first episode with Bill Oakley and our second episode with Allie, and we had audio issues with both. Because of that, we moved to a whole different set-up starting with our next episode, and I think you’ll be able to tell the difference immediately. Let’s hear it for StreamYard, making The Hip Pocket possible for at least nine episodes now.
I think Craig’s done heroic work making this one work. He had to cobble it together from some seriously compromised original recordings. That aside, the episode is a lot of fun because we have a delightful guest this week, someone I have enjoyed greatly for many years now. And just in time for Valentine’s Day, too! You might even call this an anti-Valentine’s episode thanks to Allie’s programming.
ALLIE GOERTZ is today’s guest, and if don’t already know Allie, you’re welcome for the introduction. A former editor of Mad magazine, a writer for @Midnight, a songwriter and performer, and an old-school podcaster, Allie has pretty much done it all. I’ve known her for a long time, and she was one of the first people I wanted to have on to give this format a test run.
Her three Hip Pocket picks this week are A Mighty Wind, They Came Together, and Big Night, and Aundria picked Sleeping With Other People as our response.
Finally, Drew chose to induct The Thin Man into the Hip Pocket Hall of Fame.
If you’d like to support The Hip Pocket at Patreon, you can find us at https://www.patreon.com/c/DrewMcWeeny.
If you’d like to find us on BlueSky, you can find us at https://bsky.app/profile/itsthehippocket.bsky.social.
The Hip Pocket is hosted by Drew McWeeny and Aundria Parker.
Craig Ceravolo is the show’s bandleader and producer.
It is a Formerly Dangerous Production.
[the Hip Pocket theme plays]
DREW: Welcome, everyone. I'm Drew McWeeny, and this is The Hip Pocket.
What is a hip pocket movie? I think they're the films that we hold close to us, movies that we love for whatever reason, movies that we share with people. Good movies, bad movies, blockbusters, forgotten indies. What matters most is the reason why these are the films that stick to us. And there is no better conversation to have with another movie lover to get to know them.
Every week, I love having these conversations with my two friends.
First up, we’ve got my band leader, my old buddy, Craig Ceravolo.
Craig, how are you today?
CRAIG: I’m fine, sir. How are you today?
D: I am, uh… I’m good. I'm, ready to do this. I feel like, yeah. I feel like this one is a really loaded episode. And before this rocket leaves Earth, we gotta bring on the Korman to my Conway, so please welcome my cohost, Aundria Parker. Aundria, what's up?
AUNDRIA: Hi, guys. I'm so happy to be there. I'm so happy to be there, but I'm here. I'm happy to be everywhere.
D: Yeah.
C: You're everywhere.
D: Yeah. Yep. I am excited about today's guest, and the list that they sent, overstuffed with good films this time. I feel like every single one of these is a warm, familiar bath for me. Aundria, are these films that you knew, or are they new to you?
A: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. All of them. Although I hadn't seen them in a very long time with the exception of one. Great stuff. Just comedy at… yeah. I mean, high comedy, low comedy.
D: Good.
A: Yeah.
D: Good. I, I like, I like weeks where, you know, I love weeks where you're discovering stuff. That's always fun to to drop on you, but I love weeks where you're just going back to old familiars as well. How about you, Craig?
C: One of these is one of my all-time favorite movies. Yeah.
D: I.. it is probably one of my all-time favorite movies too. Yeah.
C: But I watched it again. That's how much I love it.
D: Oh, I, I not only watched it again, I showed it to people. I was so excited, and it was… it always goes over like a house on fire. It is so exciting.
Alright. If you're ready to play, today's guest is in the waiting room. This is somebody that I've known for a number of years, and I would call them a jack of all trades. This guest is no stranger to the world of podcasting, for example. After all, they hosted a podcast that ran for six full years. And to help narrow things down, the podcast was about the show that our first guest was most famous for.
A: Oh my gosh.
C: So it's a Simpsons podcast.
D: It was indeed a Simpsons podcast.
A: Okay.
D: Okay. Alright. Second clue. Our guest landed one of those jobs that almost didn't even seem real, and while they were never given the chance to really do it right, they did it for a little while. They were able to say they were doing it, and they got to honestly claim that for a time, they were the editor of one of the best known humor magazines.
A: Okay. So National Lampoon… Mad…
D: Yeah. Okay. Alright. Final clue. In addition to podcasting and publishing, our guest is also well-known as a musician. Their first album was released under a band name that they probably would not use today. Their second album was a tribute to a particular TV show, and their new album, which is just out, is made up entirely of covers of a single band's song book.
[clip from Allie Goertz’s cover of “Closer” plays]
A: I have no idea, but this person's amazing.
D: I am so excited. This is a, a favorite person of mine, and I'm glad you guys are gonna get a chance to encounter her in her, her full nerddom. Please welcome Allie Goertz.
ALLIE G: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
D: Hey, Allie. How are you?
A: Hi, Allie.
D: Drew here as well. While she gets that turned on, let me tell you Allie’s new album, Peeled Back, is a collection of Nine Inch Nails songs, one of my most played records of the year so far. Her podcast, ‘Round Springfield, cohosted with Julia Prescott, was a wall-to-wall Simpsons lovefest. And, yes, she was the editor of Mad Magazine as well as a writer on @Midnight. She can do it all. And today, she has picked three films for us to talk about. Actually, to be fair, Allie, you picked about thirty films for us.
AG: Yeah. Okay. So you, you asked me for three movies. I think I immediately had an existential crisis and realized, like, these movies are going to identify my personality. And so I freaked out and sent you twenty options and then sent five more and then, like, five more after that. And I think there were a few texts of, like, wait, wait, what about this one? Please. Please. What about this? But, eventually, we we made our selections, and I'm pretty happy with them.
D: I think there were about four emails before you kinda had the whole list out. And we did. We eventually narrowed it down to three. And I wanna hear the reasoning behind every one of these because I think that's my favorite thing about these lists is why is this a movie that sticks to you? We're gonna start with the Christopher Guest comedy A Mighty Wind…
[the trailer for A Mighty Wind plays]
D: … which I adore, and I wanna know, what is your connection to this one and why is it special?
AG: Okay. Yes. So A Mighty Wind, one of my favorite movies, actually is really connected to me in a weird way in that my dad's banjo is featured on the cover of the movie.
D: Yes, ma'am.
AG: They use it in the scenes with The New Main Street Singers, and I remember bragging about it ever since it came out. I don't know if that makes me a nepo baby that my dad's banjo is kind of a movie star, but I just love this fun fact. The way that it happened is that there was a music shop. I think it was True Tone in LA. If not, maybe it was McCabe's. But it was one of those really cool, like, ‘90s awesome guitar shops.
And some people… I don't know if it was Chris Guest or if it was prop design folks or production or whoever it was…. they remembered that there was a specific style of banjo that had been at this guitar shop, and they decided to try and get that for the movie. And they went to the shop, and they found that it had been already sold to, uh, one Travis Goertz. That is my dad. And they ended up paying my dad, like, a small amount of money to use that banjo in the movie, which is truly, like, so funny and so cool.
And I think just speaks volumes to how much the people in this movie in every single, like, aspect… from the writers to the actors to the prop people to everything… just care so much about the movie being authentic that they would actually think about what specific banjo they wanna use because these guys take it so seriously, and I just love that so much.
D: Well, that that opens up a kind of a way I wanna talk about this one at first because both you and Craig are musicians. And it's one of those things… when music and film work together, it's my favorite thing in the world. And when you have film artists who are as good as Christopher Guest and Michael McKean and Harry Shearer at completely transfiguring themselves as songwriters and performers… the idea that Spinal Tap and these guys in this movie are the same performers, the same three guys, and that they wrote the music… it, it's mind boggling to me, and they're so good at disappearing into this. It's one thing to see a very funny actor. What is it to watch guys who are this good at both things and this funny at both things?
AG: Okay. So one of the things that I love so much about A Mighty Wind is that I feel like you could enjoy it even if you're not a big music nerd. That being said, if you are a music nerd, it's so much funnier because some of the chords that they use are punch lines. Like, some of the chords that The New Main Street Singers sing together in their harmonies are so dissonant that it's kind of, like, pretentious.
Like, there's something about it that is very much catering to the music nerd who, like, sees what other groups are doing to be, you know, in their eyes, interesting and cool. And it's the type of thing where, like, improv people hate stand up people and vice versa. And there's just, like, an inner war between the, the little micro-factions within the comedy world and the same thing with, like, the music world. It's just so annoying and, so, like, you see what it is that they're doing. I don't know if that makes sense if you're not a music nerd person, but they keep picking chords on the song “Never Did No Wandering.” Listen to that song. It's on Spotify because it will… I think you'll get what I'm saying. Like, they keep going for the most, quote, unquote, interesting chord that they could do, and it's so funny.
[clip of The New Main Street Singers performing “Never Did No Wandering” plays]
AG: The New Main Street Singers, they don't necessarily make the music that I'd want to listen to, like, in comparison to, like, Mitch and Mickey, which I genuinely would put on. But they are one of my favorite bands in the movie just because they're such… they're such a punchline. They're, they're so funny. Like, in their songs, they're just so dorky, and they're kinda coming across as, like, we're gonna say something bad. Like, we're gonna, we're gonna be weirdos. Like, that's kind of the conceit of one of their songs. And then, like, they do, like, a fun little flirty chord, or, like, they say something slightly wrong. Right? And it's just, it’s, it's so theater kid, and it's so, it's hard to articulate. But I think you get what I'm saying. Because, obviously, Chris Guest and everyone involved in writing and portraying these characters knew what they were doing because it it just works so, so well. Whether or not you understand exactly why The New Main Street Singers are funny, they just are.
D: I think the other thing that makes this movie so impressive, as somebody who loves these two actors and has loved them since I was, I don't know, 10 or 11 years old and discovered SCTV, watching Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara in this movie, there's nothing better. I, I think as great as Schitt's Creek is as a full run of a show, this is the best thing they’ve ever done together. And my, my favorite… I think, by far, my favorite performance of Levy's. The way this entire thing is built around the one song and the way we learn about this song, the way we see the old version of it, the way all that weight is placed on the kiss, and then the way the film builds to that… there is… my, my favorite stuff in this whole film is the build-up to the kiss as every other performer in the building starts to realize, wait, how are they gonna do that? What's gonna happen? And they all end up at the edge of the stage because they have to see it. And it's so beautiful. It gets me every time. I think it's because Levy is such an insane character in the movie that when he plays it sincere, it's so unexpected. Like, it really blindsides you because he's outright… he's absurd as a character, but, man, there's a real heart to it. And I think that's the weight of all the years they've spent performing together, too.
AG: Yeah. Absolutely. And I also get really choked up watching when it comes to that moment, not just because they're building it up so much that, like, you're just really desperate, and that's just what good writing does. But, yeah, it really feels earned. And, you know, one of the things that, Spinal Tap and A Mighty Wind do so well is, quite famously, some people don't know that these are fictional bands…
D: Yeah.
AG: … because they're playing it so legitimately. And like, like, who, like, I don't know too many people that are so well versed in folk music that they, like, for sure would be able to tell, like, I think I would have heard of that band. You know, it's not like rock and roll where it's just kinda like, okay, I do feel like I probably would have heard of Spinal Tap if they're that big. Folk, though, that's so niche that I think a lot of people probably could believe that this was all real, if not for the fact that it is portrayed by famous actors and actresses.
D: “Eat… at… Joe’s.”
AG: “Ea… a… oes?”
D: And especially Harry Shearer's punchline. I swear to God… before this movie exists, that feels like something that has been there for fifty years. Like…
AG: I know.
D: … that feels like a song you've heard a thousand times. And it's kind of a miracle that you can write something that immediately feels like it has historical weight, feels like it has a history to it.
[an excerpt from A Mighty Wind plays]
D: Aundria, I, I, I know that we talked a little bit about kind of this school of comedy. How, how does this one stack up in the Guest, sort of, oeuvre for you?
A: I mean, it's really high up there, and it's the one I might be least familiar with along with For Your Consideration. But Best In Show is one of my favorites of all time and I've seen it… I mean, it's got cute dogs instead of, like, cute music, so that's kinda why I lean towards it. But after watching rewatching A Mighty Wind, I immediately put on Spinal Tap because I hadn't seen that in years and years. And watching the two of them bump up against each other, it's just like, how do those three guys… you mentioned them before… Harry Shearer and Michael McKean and… I'm losing my brain…
D: Christopher Guest.
A: It's cold medicine. Sorry. How do they have the audacity to be so damn good at what they do as a whole? But like you said, the fact that they can write these tunes that feel lived in, they feel already familiar… but also, they can be extremely silly English rock stars… but also they can be the most idiosyncratic dog owners. Like, I… they don't miss. They just don't miss. And they are all so joyful to watch. The way that Christopher Guest can assemble a cast is kind of untouched, as far as I'm concerned, and everybody just seems like they're having a good time even when they're not, which is, you know, it makes it so… it's just so… I love that style of comedy so much. So deeply.
AG: Me, too. Yeah. Just one other thing about… like, I think you had mentioned, kind of, that the songs are, in earnest, very, very good songs. The soundtrack for A Mighty Wind has a couple of songs that just… there is not a trace of irony in them. There's a couple songs by Mitch and Mickey that actually, like, really gut me. One of them is like “Bobby and June,” which is kind of their war song, and it's so emotional. There are, like, a couple tiny itsy bitsy, like, glimpses of humor in it, but they are so restrained in not winking at you, which I think is what so many of the best comedy performances do ever, and as someone who really loves music and comedy and partakes in both for my own work, that's something that I always kind of try to, you know, tow the line as well. Like, even with my Nine Inch Nails cover album that you mentioned, Drew… and thank you, for bringing that up earlier…
D: Sure.
AG: … like, I was very much wondering, like, how funny should this be as the person who has, like, a comedy background and used to go by the name CossbySweater?
D: Yeah.
AG: Like, because I kind of can't help it. It, it is a little funny when I'm singing the lyrics to “Big Man with a Gun.”
D: Yes.
AG: It kind of is funny when I'm singing that I wanna, you know, f you like an animal, because it just is a little jarring. But it will be funnier and also more sincere at the same time if I play it completely in earnest. And that is, of course, perfected by the Chris Guest and, you know, company and something that I can only try to do within my own stuff, but they are the masters of it.
A: And wasn't one of the songs nominated for an Oscar, too? Wasn't one of the folk… which, in the…
D: It should have been “Kiss at the End of the Rainbow.” It was a different song.
A: Yeah. It was a group… it was a group song. It wasn't “Kiss at the End of the Rainbow.”
D: It should have been “Kiss at the End of the Rainbow,” and they should have had them perform on the show. I mean, that would have been one of those Oscar moments everyone remembered for…
AG: It gave me chills just thinking about it. I've, I've never, like, fantasized as a, as a kid or anything… I never fantasized, like, getting married. But the one thing that I have always in the back of my mind thought, like, well, if I found the right person, I think they would be really excited about, like, “Kiss at the End of the Rainbow” being incorporated in the wedding at some point.
D: Yeah. There you go.
AG: It's yet to happen. It's yet to happen. Yeah. I'm putting it out there.
D: Craig, there’s… there's movies about musicians that I think get it right and I think musicians respond to. Everybody… and I'm curious if you two feel this way… I know a lot of musicians over the years that I've spoken to love Ishtar because of the songwriting stuff at the beginning. And there's something about the way those guys are writing songs that just feels real. It just feels like guys who have tried to write things for a while together. And I, I love the set list moment in this where… the folks, when they're arguing about the set list they're gonna play, and they're talking about why things have to be… and even though we don't know those songs, man, Michael McKean is so committed to why this is the right order and how this show’s supposed to work. I love that stuff, and it feels like they've played together for forty years.
And at this point, they have. Like, it's it's truly crazy how long these guys now have done this stuff. We've talked about the fact that there's a Spinal Tap movie shooting right now or finished recently, and I'm dying to see them again. I really am. I'm not often this excited about a legacy sequel, but those guys together again, I get very excited about, because I know there'll be new music, and I guarantee they are still committed to those characters in the same way.
A: And they commit to that. You know?
D: Commitment. Yeah. I think that's the thing. It's commitment that makes these movies special. Everybody commits in every single role in this film. You just watched Waiting for Guffman again, too.
C: I did. I kind of went on a bit of a Christopher Guest tear. There's an interview where they were talking about Spinal… I… it was recently. They were talk… oh, they were talking about Guffman. It was… Christopher Guest and Eugene Levy had, like, a Q&A. It wasn't that long ago. And they were talking about just wrapping up the new Spinal Tap. And what really struck me is, like, they started out as a joke, and then they started playing shows as a goof, and they went on, like, a silly tour, and then they went, wait a minute, we're a band now. Like, we're an actual band.
D: Which they are!
C: You know what I mean? With a… with a band manager and the whole thing that comes with a big tour… so, yeah, they've cut their teeth. Like, they're a band. And, you know, there's all that wonderful stuff at the beginning of Spinal Tap, where it's going through their different eras, and, you know, one of them is that psychedelia, where it’s, like, all the sunshine and rainbows and stuff. So, I mean, they know what they're doing. So this… I… this doesn't feel so jarring to me, because I'm looking back at that stuff.
What I wanted to say is that there's a fine line that they walk where earnest and goofy… if, if it's too goofy and we kind of… you guys have already talked about this a little bit… if it's too goofy, it doesn't work. There has to be an earnestness to it or, like, a straight… in, in Waiting for Guffman, it's the orchestra. They're playing it with all of their might, right?
D: Yes. Yeah.
C: And it's the… and the actors that are being kind of like, that, that have that freedom to to give it their all as the characters, but it still feels amateurish. But the orchestra is the one that's, like, carrying the weight. For, for A Mighty Wind, it's everyone.
D: Yeah.
C: Like, none of it is played in a… I mean, it's subtle and it's funny, but all of it is played just right. They're, they're… because they're seasoned performers in the movie. Right? It's not amateur hour like Waiting For Guffman. So they have to be seasoned professionals. So they're given that chance to shine. And that's what I love about A Mighty Wind is that they can be as good as they are and it not be a joke.
D: Yeah. Yeah.
A: That's not where the comedy comes from.
D: I love the irritation they have for each other over little… like, the way The Folksmen cannot stand The New, the, the, the… and listening to them perform just makes them crazy. Even if they didn't play their song, it would make them crazy. I think Parker Posey is deranged in this film. There is… I, I love her so much, but there’s… every now and then, she just plays something, and it’s… you see a crazy little animal behind her eyes. And this is one of those movies where, man, she's nuts. And it’s…
C: Yeah.
D: So good. And her whole backstory and why this, this thing is now… you, you get the feeling that that is a very real life lived and this is a life raft. And, yeah, it’s, it's great. I love how deep these characters are. Yeah, this is one of those that… go ahead.
AG: I also love, in addition to all of the musical performers, the kind of reason for this event is Bob Balaban putting together this whole show. And Bob Balaban just… he… please give him his flowers. He's so profoundly funny. And anytime he ever shows up in anything, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be good. It got that…
D: I love him touring the stage before that. Those lights, are they secure?
AG: It's so good. It's so… because I feel like everyone knows someone or is someone like that, and that's another thing that Christopher Guest does so, so well.
D: I think I've loved him since I was 7 years old when I saw Close Encounters and he was the little nerdy guy with the French scientist. And just…
C: Oh, that's right.
D: … in everything since, he's just that guy perfectly. Bob Balaban is, is one of those guys that has truly carved out a niche that is just Bob Balaban shaped. Nobody else could do what he does.
C: But, I mean, that’s… again, that's the, that Christopher Guest has this little troupe of folks that keep coming back in different iterations. You know? Bob Balaban may not be the main character in this one, but he's gonna be the main character in this one later and sing with Parker Posey and I love that. You know, I haven't seen… I forgot all about For Your Consideration. Is it good? Like, I don't wanna just…
A: I don't remember.
AG: It's the weakest of them all by…
C: Okay.
AG: … by a bit.
D: It's the premise. It’s, it's Oscar season…
AG: …but that’s more a testament to the other movies, I think.
C: You can get… I'm sorry, Allie. What was that? Say it again.
AG: It's the weakest, but that could also just be a testament to how, like, above and beyond perfect the other ones are.
C: Right.
D: I kinda feel like it's saying Michael Mann's worst films, and you're, like, yeah, but those are good movies. Like, most of those are really good movies. So it’s… there’s, there's that sliding scale, and I do think Chris Guest, he hits such a high bar. You know, it’s… I don't think this one is as funny as Best in Show. Best in Show makes me laugh harder, but I think A Mighty Wind, I care more about, and I genuinely think it's the music.
AG: I love that.
D: It's watching these people do this Herculean thing that just impresses me so much.
C: And not to repeat what you guys said, but it's Eugene Levy's best performance.
AG: Yeah. Agreed.
C: So when he brings the rose back at the end, it destroys me. It destroys me.
AG: It gives me chills. Mhmm.
D: I’m really glad that he has had the second half of his career that he's had. I’m… I love that he has found older Eugene Levy stardom in a way that I think eluded him when he was younger. As much as he was part of that SCTV crew that graduated, he was always, like, fifth-billed in movies. And the movies he was higher billed in did not do well. He, they never quite figured out what to do with him. I think now everybody knows what to do with him. Now Eugene Levy's kind of this treasure and everybody goes, oh, I get it. Perfect.
AG: Same with Catherine O’Hara.
D: Same with Catherine… yeah… Catherine O'Hara, same way.
A: Same with Catherine O'Hara.
D: God bless. I love that they aged into people truly appreciating what titans they are.
AG: Absolutely.
C: What's the one with Rick Moranis? Welcome to Paradise? Is that… what is that one?
D: Club Paradise.
C: Club Paradise.
D: Club Paradise, where Eugene Levy and Rick Moranis find a giant bag of weed that they have to smuggle through the jungle. It's like 75 pounds of…
C: Such a good movie.
A: Writing that one down.
AG: I have not seen that.
D: That's a Harold Ramis film. That was the, that was the time I started working at a theater and that came out.
C: Yeah. Club Paradise.
AG: Okay.
C: Isn't that, Lea Thompson and…?
D: It’s Peter O’Toole and Jimmy Cliff, and it's a lot of Jimmy Cliff music… original, like, reggae songs he wrote for it.
C: Yeah.
D: It is an odd little movie, man.
C: Yeah.
[a clip of Jimmy Cliff singing “Club Paradise” plays]
D: Every single time I see your second film that you picked, I walk away convinced that it is the best movie I have ever seen. This one punches a hole in me, but more importantly, it makes me so fucking hungry I can't think straight. And I don't know what I love most about the 1996 film Big Night, but why don't you start by telling us why you picked it.
[the trailer for Big Night plays]
AG: Big Night is a movie that, when I watched it for the first time, and I think it was recommended to me by my old friend Jeremy Smith when he and I were working on a Twin Peaks podcast together and he was introducing me to quite a few things… I have not kept in touch with Jeremy over the years, but that movie has always, like, kept a very special place, where when I see it, I always have to be like, thanks again for that, because that was a really cool thing you gave me. But that movie just… there's something so cozy about it, and so, it just is one of those movies that it feels like you're the only one in the world who's seen it, no matter how many other people have. And it just really feels intimate, and I don't know what makes it almost have, like, a voyeuristic feeling. I mean, I guess sometimes the, like, POV shots, which are now so, so popular, But, I remember at the time feeling like, wow, those are really special shots, like, when they all have their hands on that one particular pasta dish that I just remember looking at that, being like, this movie is so good. But there's just something about it that just feels so remarkably special, and I don't know that I have a good way of articulating why. And I know that if I were to show it to someone, I wouldn't want to give them much of a sales pitch because I think it's something that… it speaks to people for its own reason, and I don't always know what that will be either. I know that there's nothing about it not to like. I know that there's something really unique about it, and it just… I mean, by design, I guess, it kinda feels like a great meal, where it's just like a great meal that took a lot of time that not everybody gets. It's the risotto of this movie.
D: It’s a sneaky little thing, structurally. The way that movie's built, the way it’s, it… the way that the whole dramatic arc of it is built, you almost don't realize that you're in the meat of the movie by the time it's happening. You don't realize that the meal has begun and that the evening is really halfway done. It just kind of… you realize, oh my god, it's happening. This is, it's already… the food's coming out there and these people are already here. The, the way that party unfolds, the way the whole evening unfolds feels very natural. I love Minnie Driver. I'm a big Minnie Driver fan, and this is one of the best uses of her. I think she's terrific in this. I think when she finally gets her heart broken, she's phenomenal in the way she plays it. I think she is so adorable. And you talk about somebody who was born for a certain era's fashion…
AG: Oh my god.
D: She looks awesome in the ’50s fashion that they put her in. Just awesome. Same with Allison Janney. Like, they both perfectly fit the era, and I think Ian Holm is all-time great in this movie. As much as I love that little weirdo and everything I've ever seen him in, this… he's so slippery. He's such a, he's such a devious little guy, and you never quite know what's going on behind the eyes. You never know how much he's fucking with this guy and how much he really likes him. And it's wonder… it's such a great performance.
[clip from Big Night plays]
AG: Yeah. From, from everybody. I really do… me personally, I think that this is my favorite performance of everybody who's in it.
D: Yeah.
AG: Like, I really do think that. Like, I think that they all were kind of meant to play these parts, and it just goes together so well, and it blows me away.
D: I love that so much of the rest of Tucci's career has been about food.
AG: Yeah.
D: But this was the… this was the hey, I'm gonna come out of the closet now. I'm gonna let you know I'm a fucking freak for this. I am so into food. And the way he shoots movie food in this movie… he and Campbell Scott co-directed this movie. I feel like a lot of the performance stuff is Campbell Scott. A lot of the, the, the way they built this sort of theatrical space for the actors, but a lot of the food stuff is Tucci. A lot of that comes directly from his background and how he grew up. And the way they shoot it is very fetishy. Like, he loves cooking, the physical act of cooking, and this was at a time before we had 8,000,000 cooking shows and 8,000,000 food travel shows. And I think he was very ahead of the curve in just showing you how something is made and how fascinating it is. I can't get Timpano out of my head. Every time you see this movie, you just get obsessed again and you're like, I'm sorry, do they have this? And you… I look it up on Google every time and every time I'm like, god damn it. There's none in LA that I can go get. It's so frustrating because it is truly one of the greatest things I've ever seen someone make in a film. Did you see this one theatrically back in the ‘90s, Craig?
C: Yeah.
AG: I’m jealous.
C: Yeah. Well, that's the, that's the thing with being old… you can see these things in the theater. As an Italian American, it really struck me. But also, you're right. Eat, Drink, Man, Woman… like, there's a great, this love affair with food, where a director takes the time to show you how food is prepared. Here’s… you know what my favorite scene in this entire movie is? Can anyone guess what my favorite scene in this entire movie is? I won't make you wait too long. It's the end.
D: The end.
C: It's the end.
D: It's the best scene. It’s, it's one of the best scenes, one of the best single...
C: I made eggs today.
D: … long shots. Yeah.
C: Yes. I made eggs today, and I think about the technique every time I make scrambled eggs. And if you watch him make that scrambled egg and you make it exactly like that, it's the best scrambled egg you'll ever eat in your life. Yeah. But it's such a beautiful… it's silent almost, and it's beautiful. And little Marc Anthony.
D: Yeah.
C: That’s just amazing to me. But the simplicity of feeding them just eggs after all of that, that you get to see this elaborate meal, is so beautiful. It's the best ending to any movie I've ever seen.
AG: I love that.
D: I also think it's one of the the most subtle statements about brotherhood, about the fact that they had a blowout fight, like this incredible existential fight about everything, about how they're gonna live and what the future is, but then afterwards, they cook for each other. And it’s… that, that always is the foundation of things. It's beautiful. And the fact that that last scene is silent, the fact that the last scene is one shot, the fact that it's acted with this almost musical choreography… it's so gorgeous, man. Aundria, was this, is… I, I assume, like you said, this is one you're familiar with.
A: I had seen it.
D: Old fave?
A: You know, I'd only seen it once, but I was very particular, because I didn't wanna watch it again because I loved it so much that first time. So I was very wary of revisiting it. And Allie, you said… you know, you said it was cozy and intimate. And I do think it's a small movie, but not… not using that word in a derogatory way. If anything, it's a complimentary way. It is small. It is so cozy. And the love of each individual character, never mind the actor playing these characters, is just… it’s, it's jumping right off the screen… screen at you. Everybody is obviously in love with what they're doing that there's just, like, a tenderness to it that that you don't see. And I feel like movies try to capture that a lot, but the awesome… the authenticity of the warmth and the sweetness and the joy is just… it’s, it's so apparent. It's a beautiful film.
D: There's so much backstory with every performance. I feel like Campbell Scott, just watching him work the party, watching how he's constantly handing his cards out, he takes Ian Holm on the test drive and he’s… that guy has the best night of anybody at that party. Campbell Scott comes in, cleans house, leaves with three women. It's the best night he's ever had in his life. I love it. And it’s… his movie is a totally different movie than, like, anybody else at the table, which is… part of what makes that film feel so alive is the fact that you could follow any one of those characters to that party and from that party. It would probably be equally interesting.
AG: I love that. Yeah. This is obviously very, very on the nose to say, but to the… like, there's just something funny about the title being Big Night and it not being, like, an action flick or something huge and something big. It is this really intimate affair, and it is small, and it is just, like, it's a slice of life, and it is so good. And I don't know. I was trying to get a friend of mine to watch it, and I was just, like, I don't know. It's like Waiting for Godot with cooking.
C: Yeah. That's a great comp... I was gonna bring up Waiting For Guffman…
D: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think there’s… and there’s, there's also… anybody, if you ask them, probably has at least one meal that they think about all the time. And it's the meal, the evening, the people they had it with. It's all those things together. We all have those. Like, I have probably a handful of them that I definitely think about. And that's what this movie captures perfectly is the way that night unfolds. And by the end of it, every one of those people is gonna remember this for the rest of their lives. They're all gonna remember every single thing they ate. They're gonna remember the conversations. They're gonna remember the music and the dancing, and it will be burned into those brains. And I think that's what's so wonderful. It doesn't do anything for them as restaurateurs. It doesn't save them. There's no giant… I love that the movie does not resolve anything.
AG: Yeah.
D: The movie leaves a lot of threads just kinda dangling at the end. And who knows? I have no idea what's gonna happen to them. I have no idea if they're really ruined. I have no idea if they're gonna go back to… I don't know, and I kinda don't care. It's the, it's that night. Yeah. It's that night. It's the memory they gave everybody who came to that restaurant that night, which is I truly think all Tony Shalhoub ever wanted to do is every night make a night where somebody came to the restaurant and they felt like they had that experience.
And you see him… I also think it's a brave movie about art, because he is the artist who doesn't wanna compromise. He is the artist who takes his art seriously. Stanley Tucci is the producer who just wants the thing done so that they can release it. And that tension between them, I think, is something that anybody who works in a creative field feels and understands. And I think it's a beautiful expression of that tension that exists between the money and the art of something and how in order to have the one, in order to truly build this place where you can make art, you gotta pay for it. And…
AG: Yes. There are a couple… if I'm not stepping on each other here, there are a couple lines that really hit me differently because I think when I first saw it, I maybe wasn't producing too much of my own material yet. And so it was a little bit more, something to reflect on. And one of those lines was the two of them talking about, like, you know, “They should just come here for the food.” And he's like, “I know.” Like, “They should just be here for the food.” He's like, “I know, but they're not.” And how heartbreaking that is because, yeah, like, in a perfect world, people would just go to the thing that is the best, that is the, it's just the most artistic and heartfelt, and it's just amazing, but that's not what most people care about. That's not why most people go. And I just, like, paused the movie to sit with that line for a second…
D: Yeah.
AG: … because I was like, Oh, my God, that is so… it's such a simple line. It's just such a simple little thing. Like, they don’t… that's not what it is. And how sad that is and beautiful. It's just a part of life. There was another line, but I'll have to recount my brain to go back to it because almost every line of this movie is just very funny.
D: I, I love that it works very, it works almost symbolically, but it, it also works as very naturalistic. I love that their names are Primo and Segundo.
C: Oh my god.
AG: Yeah.
D: Their names are literally “First” and “Second.”
AG: Yeah. It's so funny. First and Second.
D: It's so great.
C: That's like an endearing term for brothers.
D: And, man, does it define them. You get everything you need out of those names and then watching them play those opposed positions. It's terrific dynamics between them. I, I love Shalhoub, and this was a period where Shalhoub was still kinda ramping up in terms of people knowing him. I think Quick Change was the first place I ever really took note of him and walked away from Quick Change like, I love that guy. Whoever the dude is who’s, like, Bluftoni! I love that guy. I want more of him. And this was the movie where I felt like, oh, wow, Tony Shalhoub's a beast. Like, he's not just a good comedy actor. He’s… there's a lot going on in there, and I think Tucci brings it out of him. They're beautiful together.
AG: Oh, I found the other quote that I thought was really, like, just good advice, which is Ian Holm. “Give people what they want, then later you could give them what you want.” That's so good.
D: Yeah. And it would be so easy for Ian Holm to just be a dick in this movie and just be wrong, but he's not.
AG: Mhmm.
D: He's successful for a reason. And part of this is a lesson to Segundo about expectation and about reality, and it's a brutal lesson. But I don't even think it's necessarily cold-hearted or cruel. I think, in his way, he thinks he's helping Segundo and he'll benefit from it. But…
AG: Of course.
A: Yeah.
D: Man, it's such a, it's such a fine line. It's beautifully done.
C: If, if there's a comet coming and we don't know what’s… you know, we only have a 24-hour time span, I want us all to meet at some Italian restaurant and just have this meal.
D: There you go.
C: And we can play the string game. And just meet me there. Let's just all do that.
AG: Yes. Definitely.
[an Italian pop song from Big Night plays]
D: The last one that you chose, Allie, is a film that I saw originally at Sundance. And I went because I'd seen this director's first film that premiered at Sundance my very first time at the festival. So I felt like, oh, great, he's back. I wanna see what he's done. And this is a strange and prickly little thing. And I feel like the people who love this one are extra possessive of it. So why don't you tell me what made you choose 2014’s They Came Together.
[the trailer for They Came Together plays]
AG: I think They Came Together is an incredible litmus test for how smart and funny a person is, and it’s as simple as that.
D: I…You know what? I can’t argue with you.
AG: I hope that… I hope that I don't out anyone on this show for not being smart and funny. But the truth is, if you don't like it, you're just that.
D: Part of the thing that is crazy about this film is it, it is unwilling to bend for the audience. It pushes you as far as it can. The whole “tell me about it” scene is a test. It is a test to see how far you can push something before it stops being funny, and then how far you have to push it before it becomes funny again. And that… they really go for it in those moments. And I think that’s… part of what's joyous here is it feels like a film that came very much out of we've had to make these movies. Everybody involved has had to be in one of these movies for real. In Paul Rudd's case, ten of these movies for real. And we all get now why it's ridiculous and phony and weird. And so we're just gonna lean into everything we have ever felt or thought making these films. And I think David Wain… it's played so straight that you might, for the first ten minutes or so, wonder why it's so insane before you realized truly it's the Mad Magazine version of every one of these movies that you've ever seen, and so specific about the things it's roasting.
AG: Yeah. I think every… and for me personally, the test of a great bit of satire is going to be a wealth of knowledge about the source material, but also an affinity for it. There has to be some level of appreciation of what it is that you're skewering in able to, in order to get it right. And to me, it's completely different tonally from anything Chris Guest has ever done. But it's not dissimilar in what it's doing well, in terms… it's just handling it in the bombastic, absurdist, like, over the top hitting you in the head, hitting it on the head type of mentality. But it's doing the same thing. It’s, it's not crazily different to me from, like, Shaun of the Dead or other Edgar Wright movies, where it's like, this is someone who knows this stuff inside and out and therefore is able to make the best commentary on it.
D: Aundria, is this a fave of yours?
A: I will… I'm not outing myself as not smart or not funny. That said, I love David Wain. I love The State. I love Paul Rudd. I love Amy Poehler. I've seen this movie twice now. I don't love it, but I like it very much.
D: I get that.
A: And I love the aspects of it.
AG: What, what aspects don't work for you? Is it the, like, kinda, like, again and again and again of it all?
A: It’s… you know, I can't even put my finger on why I find it particularly grating at certain times, but I know that's part of its charm as well. So there are two wolves in me, and I just, you know, I cannot, and I don't even wanna say I don't like it because…
AG: Because of the mean thing I said at the start.
A: No. No. No. Because I do have such affection and love for David Wain and those guys. And casting Paul Rudd in that role is genius, like you said, because he's made the straight version of these movies so many times. My friend described this movie as the movie where they say what the joke is before they, you know, enact the punchline. And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what it is.
AG: Yeah, that is very true. It is very much like a, like, I don't know if this is very obnoxious to say, but it does feel like the comic's comic. Like, it does feel like it’s, it's someone who's seen this stuff so much that it's just so relieving to see it being seen or not.
D: It feels like it's very much pitched to the people in the writers' rooms for these movies.
AG: Totally.
D: It feels like it feels like people who wrote these movies wrote this in the writers' room to get it out of their system before they had to write the straight version because otherwise, they'd be too mean while they write the straight version. So it’s… there is a purging feeling. I think what you said about parody is right though, Allie. And I think it's one of the reasons that for me, I've always really loved Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddles way more than Spaceballs because I think Mel Brooks adores Frankenstein movies. I think Mel Brooks lived and breathed westerns for many years. I think he loved Hitchcock. I don't think he gave a shit about Star Wars.
AG: Yeah.
D: I don't think it meant anything to him when he came out. I think it was just this weird movie that came out and he was like, oh, it was a big hit, whatever. It doesn't feel like it comes from the same place of love and I've thought about this stuff so much that I have to make jokes. This does. This is… I've thought about this stuff to the point where I am an insane person in a room and I have to write this down. And there is that feeling. It’s, it's arch in a way that I think David Wain does very well, and it is partially his signature. It’s… the same thing is true of Wet Hot American Summer. You know, when you talk about tone, there's a lot of that movie that feels like it is calling its shot as it’s making the joke. And I don’t… I don't mind. I think that's Wain. I think there's something about his… I think, I think The State in general is kind of like that. There's a, a voice that I recognize in this movie that is very much The State’s sense of humor where they love a punchline that they can do 43 times. They… and, and, and genuinely, I think part of that is there's something about the repetition that eventually gets to the point where it's funny. And again, like, that's the comedians thing.
A: Yeah.
D: It’s… you've, you've seen comics in comic clubs who know when they're dying. And to an extent, they kinda wanna die a little bit. And they're, like, no, no. Come on. Give me some of your… get mad at me. Get at me. Now I'm gonna win you back. And I'm gonna hit and I… and I think there's some of that in this movie. They're almost at times being abrasive on purpose to see how far they can push you. And then they flip and they do something that is charming or ridiculous or absurd.
[clip from They Came Together plays]
AG: The… what was the line that they keep saying again and again and again in the bar? Yeah. “Tell me about it.” Okay. So that, this… maybe this is incorrect...
D: You can say that again.
AG: Yes. Should I? Well, you can yeah. So that, from what I understand, was a pitch, if not save, from the editor. And I forget the name of the editor, but she's brilliant. And, I think it was just that that scene as written was not working as it was meant to. And so she cut it where it… she was the one who made that call of just having it go again and again and again. And from what I understand, like, Wain and all those guys are just like, oh my god. Like, this is so funny. And that is actually the same thing that happened on The Simpsons, in the incredible moment where Sideshow Bob keeps stepping on a rake and just keeps having that very guttural guttural reaction. That's just because the episode was running short on time and needed to fill the episode. And so they just kept playing it again, and Kelsey Grammer heard it and was like, what the hell is this? Like, why are you having me do this so many times? Because he only recorded it that once.
D: One of the funniest scenes of all time.
AG: Like 100%.
D: Yeah. It's a, it’s, it's a fine line. And I do think it’s… I think Wain is, he's one of those comedy brains who he thinks about the theory of comedy. And a lot of this is an exercise of sorts where he's playing with form on purpose. I've had this theory for a long time. I know they're not part of The State, but I, I always had this theory about Thomas Lennon and Ben Garant when they were… Hollywood… when they were writing their big Hollywood movies, like Herbie Fully Loaded and things like that. I had this theory that they took those gigs, and then they would write the insane Tom Lennon and Ben Garant version just to see if the studio noticed. And, like, they would write these movies that when you watch really, the, the… when you think about the screenplay of these films, they are winking at you just as hard as this movie is. They're telling you, we know this is ridiculous. We know. It's a Herbie movie, for Christ's sakes. There's a sense that they even… when they were supposed to be straight mainstream writers, I, I get the feeling they were trying to sneak one over.
AG: Oh, totally.
D: Like, there is a sense where they're almost mocking the thing they're making as they're making it.
AG: They also know that it's gonna get rewritten, and so there's really no reason not to go for it if it's already going to get rewritten.
D: Right. Like how much of this will make it through to the end of this thing? Like…
AG: And, and what if some of it stays miraculously because the… yeah, people rewriting it missed it. Like, go for it.
[clip from They Came Together plays]
BILL HADER: Okay, we get the point!
D: It is funny because I… like I said, the year after this played Sundance and I saw it there… the year afterwards, I saw another film, same auditorium that I flipped for as well. And, it turns out Aundria is maybe even more of a fan of this one than I am. And it seemed appropriate to both of us to make Leslye Headland's Sleeping with Other People the response to your list.
[trailer for Sleeping With Other People plays]
D: So, is this one that you were familiar with as well, Allie?
AG: I’m obsessed with… if that sounds weird. I'm obsessed with Sleeping With Other People. I love Sleeping With Other People. But no, the film… I saw it, I saw it at Arclight, and I forget the name of the writer and director that you just mentioned, but she was there, and she spoke about the movie, and it was so exciting. I think I saw it alone. I think I was just big into going to Arclight movies alone, and was just like, whatever this is, I'll see it. I love Alison Brie. I love Jason Sudeikis.
D: Yeah.
AG: And it makes me weep. The music is so good. It's just such a good soundtrack. Everything about it is, like, great. And I was very happy that you brought it up to me because I have actively been waiting to watch it recently, and it was a perfect invitation at the exact right time because it... I knew it would really hit me even more now, and it totally did.
D: I love that both This Came Together… They Came Together and Sleeping With Other People feature Mantzoukas playing the same role.
AG: Yep.
D: And it is… we talk about Rudd doing many of these. Mantzoukas is the best friend and he's a perfect “the best friend.” He's great at doing the insane version of it and he's genuinely great in this movie. Like, I love his character and I love his relationship. I, I think they are really interesting as a couple. I love that they are… it really reminds me of When Harry Met Sally in as much as I was just as invested in When Harry Met Sally in Bruno Kirby and Carrie Fisher as I was in the main couple. And I feel that way here where it's like…
AG: Yes.
D: … they're just as interesting and just as cool and they're doing their own thing over here.
AG: Yeah, because there are so many moments where you would suspect that the partner of a character like Jason Mantzoukas would be kind of a wet blanket or…
D: Yeah.
AG: … wouldn't be in on the joke. And I honestly think that every single one of these movies has some of the strongest representation of funny women. Like, funny, strong, unique women. Like, we didn't even really talk about it, other than Minnie Driver being excellent, and Allison Janney being excellent, but every woman in Big Night is so unique and so strong, and not in, like, the, you know, cheesy bullshit version of strong, but they are, like, flawed and human and emotional, and they are vulnerable and sexy and just so unique. And they also couldn't look more different from each other, which I really respect. And I like that that's something that you see in, even the casting of They Came Together. I will be honest with you. I love Amy Poehler. I think she's beautiful. I think she's, like, smoking hot. But I remember when that came out thinking it's strange to see Paul Rudd opposite a person that kind of looks like a person. And, again, a very beautiful person. But we're used to seeing someone like Megan Fox and, you know, being opposite Shia LaBeouf. So, like, it's not common that you're seeing, like, that even. And that kind of felt… kind of… it shouldn't. Again, she's gorgeous. But it was, like, man, I just love seeing people being funny and real, and remembering that that's what makes people so hot in the first place. And, yeah, same thing is true with, like, I don't know, just Alison Brie and Jason Sudeikis are gorgeous people, but there's still, like, such a realness about them. And I think the clothing choices and, like, all the things that kind of tie it back to the timeline that it comes out in and where they grow also just makes it feel very human. And you can tell that it is based on… Can you remind me of her name? The woman who made…
C: Leslye Headland.
AG: Thank you. Amazing. She was talking about how this was based on her own life. Although she tragically revealed that they do not get together in the end in the real story. But good for her for making it come true in the movie, because that's probably what I would want to do as well. Very cathartic. But you could just tell that it's so real. All of these movies have such real elements that it just is so cool because they couldn't be more different stylistically, tonally, all that stuff.
D: Aundria, I know that we've talked about the fact that you've seen this repeatedly lately…
A: I have.
D: … just by coincidence. Talk about your relationship with this one.
A: It's another one that I, I watched. I think it just kept coming up on my Netflix years ago. Like, it was just on streaming. And I'm like, I like Jason Sudeikis. I love Alison Brie. Let's watch it. And I just fell in love with it. And it was another thing where I was putting off watching it again because I’m, like, I don't wanna ruin that perfect experience I had. So a couple months ago, I watched it, loved it just as much, ended up watching it again the next day with my partner. And then I think we had… the three of us had, like, a brief discussion about it. And now I had to watch it again. Oh, poor me. I had to watch it again.
D: I know. I really twisted your arm there.
A: There’s… god, I so… watching a, for the sake of this conversation, a straight Paul Rudd romantic comedy is not something I would ever seek out. I, If I'm gonna watch a romantic comedy, I want it to be sexy in an adult way, and I want it to hurt a little bit.
AG: Yes.
A: And this movie… I like my sweetness with filth, I think is what I said at one point, and this movie has it. And it's an adult movie, which I really enjoy. It is fucking messy. Love is messy. Relationships are messy. Sex is messy. And it doesn't pull any punches. It is what it is. These ca… these characters are likable, and they're unlikable. They do not know everything. They're figuring it out. I just… god, I fucking love this movie, you guys.
AG: Me, too. Can you imagine if Harry was teaching Sally how to finger herself? It's so different.
A: Exactly. It is just like …
D: I think that was the original title.
AG: Yeah. How Harry Fingered Sally.
A: It's so good. It's hot.
C: Yeah.
A: And it's heartbreaking. And I, I just wanna show it to… I think I said to… that, like, the guys. I’m, like, I wanna show this to everybody I know because it's so good. It’s, it's laugh out loud funny at parts and just… I don't have anything bad to say about it. I just wish there was more to it, more of it, because I could watch these characters forever.
[clip from Sleeping With Other People plays]
D: It's interesting that Sudeikis, because of Ted Lasso now, has this nice guy sort of vibe that has become very associated with him. This was, I, I thought, an incredible performance and to me, this is the wheelhouse. This is what kind of role you should be looking for where he is messy and human and interesting and he's got rough edges and… but that charm is undeniable. And the same thing with Brie. Like, I feel like Brie is somebody who… it was weird that Community and Mad Men at the same time
AG: Unreal.
D: … were using her as very young and very grown up. And they were… they couldn't have been more different. Trudy and…
AG: “I try not to sexualize her.”
D: Yes! Trudy and Annie are wildly different characters and even, like, different decades of where they are developmentally. And the fact that Brie played them both at the same time and did it so ably, I think speaks to range. I don't think she's really been taken full advantage of on film by a director. I don't think they've really understood what a weapon she is. This is the one movie. And I think she and Sudeikis both are at just nuclear grade charm in this film. Real hard not to walk away with a crush on both of them.
AG: Yeah. Yeah. I would also say of this movie, it's my favorite thing that both of them have done, respectively.
A: Mhmm.
AG: And I love… I love Mad Men and Community, but I really just think that those rules for both of them, just A+.
D: Is this a familiar one for you, Craig, or is this new?
C: No. I'd never seen either one of those. Yeah.
D: Oh, wow.
C: I wouldn’t… I wouldn't say that romantic…
D: As a double feature that's really interesting. Isn't that, isn't that really interesting to watch them kind of close together?
C: Yeah. I thought there were parts of… I like that this one much better than I liked They Came Together.
AG: They're completely different movies.
C: They are. However… but they're both kind of turning the genre on its head in a way.
AG: True.
A: True.
C: And one of them's kind of with a scalpel and the other one's with a sledgehammer. So, I mean, you know, I feel like this is like a dirty Nora Ephron, which I really…
A: Yeah. Who doesn't like that?
D: That's a vibe that I wish other people… I, I wish that's a space that we have, like, every couple of months or every year in the theater. Like, something like that.
A: That's the dream. That’s the dream.
C: Yeah. And yeah. And that’s, and that's the thing about it. And this is about ten years old. Yeah.
AG: That's crazy.
C: … is that we don’t… we have we have all these IPs and these Marvels and Star Wars, which I love. But these little movies that just kinda sneak under the radar in the theater, it's such a thing that doesn't happen anymore that, it's sad to see. But it’s… but I don't know how I missed this, but I missed it. And I'm glad that that I got to watch it. I can't say that I'm glad I got to watch, uh….
AG: That just unfortunately means that you're not smart and funny. I hate to say it. I'm so sorry to tell you.
C: No. No. I knew that. Allie, come on, I knew that a long time ago. I didn't need… I knew that. Yeah.
AG: I do wanna make a clarification of that cruel, cruel awful thing I said. It is for me, and I'm sure this is part of the conceit of The Hip Pocket to begin with.
D: Absolutely.
AG: That for me is something where, like, if I was on a date or I was with someone I was seeing and they also appreciated it for all of its weirdness, I would know, Oh, they're gonna appreciate all of my weirdness too. Like, this is someone who's gonna understand how, like, kinda batshit silly I am. And that's really a nice shortcut. And so that's the test more than…
D: Oh, and definitely, the… we do a, at the end of the episodes, we do sort of a prepared piece on one film. And this week we're doing one on The Thin Man, which is for me that movie where… when I showed The Thin Man my girlfriend now and she fell for it the way she did, I'm like, okay.
AG: Now we can move forward here.
D: We got a common language there. We got, we got, we got a foundation, so we can start from there. I, I absolutely feel like these… you know, there are movies that you use them as kind of a a barometer. You just wanna see how somebody reacts, and it’s, it's just interesting. Withnail & I, for years and years and years, it's been one of those films.
AG: Same. The best.
D: Yeah.
AG: I think that was on my list.
D: It was. It's scary… one of the scary things was showing those to my kids, too.
AG: Oh, a lot of those things are of a certain time, for sure.
D: Yeah. Well, I showed… Withnail was part of my older son's 18th birthday. His marathon… he comes over and does a marathon on his birthday.
AG: Awww.
D: And that was part of his 18th birthday marathon, and it is on his top 10 now.
AG: Oh, wow.
C: That's cool.
D: That… and it just blew his mind. It… something about the rhythms and the… it completely still spoke to him. And I love it.
AG: Well, that’s small, too. That's also a small movie. Yeah. Even though it's kinda covering more of an epic timeline. It's like that type of thing. Yeah.
D: But, man, if that if that one doesn't work for you, I get it. Of course. And I, I can't fault somebody who doesn't like With… Withnail’s so particular. You can’t… yeah. But, man, when somebody does get it, it's like, oh, I love that. I like it. I love it.
A: I like the idea of using… and, and I've just not thought of it this way, but this is what we all do, I think, and, Allie, you kinda put the nail on it. It's like using a movie to suss out red flags in either a new friendship or a new romantic relationship. Like, there's a shorthand, especially with comedy. Like, if someone doesn't get your comedy…
D: Problematic. It's just not gonna work.
A: So problematic. Like, comedy is sexy. If someone doesn't laugh at what you laugh at…
C: I don’t… I don't like this. No. I don't like this one. Because when Becca and I started dating, she's like, you gotta watch MacGruber. And if you don't think MacGruber's funny, this isn't gonna work.
AG: She's correct. Oh, my God. I have a picture of me dressed as MacGruber. My ex and I both dressed as MacGruber. So I was Kristen Wiig as MacGruber, and he was MacGruber, too.
C: Oh, that's great. No, I'm kidding. I loved it. But I just thought that was a very specific movie that was… yeah.
A: I have an example, a very extreme example, where Greg had bought me a copy of Popstar for my birthday. I had never seen it. And what I said to him was I'd open it up. I'm like, oh, that's really sweet, but I don’t, I don't know if that's my thing. Like, I, I think I was just too overexposed on Lonely Island or something, whatever. So years pass. Five, six years pass. And one morning I woke up and I said, I think I wanna finally watch Popstar. I watched it. I absolutely loved it. I should have put the trust in him to know my comedy at that point, but I was like, well, here we are. You were right. I was wrong. Forgive me. You know?
AG: Sometimes we're not ready for certain things. And if you have watched it, you might have not liked it then, and then you might have gone your whole life thinking that it's not good, when in fact, of course, it's good.
A: That's very true. That's very true. I think movies do find you when they're supposed to find you and… you know?
AG: Totally.
D: My last thing I wanna say about any of these is… and I, I forgot to say this when we were talking about it… in They Came Together, Bill Hader is the biggest stealth freak I've ever seen in a movie. It is so deranged the way that character plays his arc over the course of that film from, hey, just a guy the other guy on the other side of the table in a rom-com to whatever the hell he is at the end. It's quite the journey.
I am so happy that you made the time to sit down with us, Allie. Thank you so much.
AG: Of course.
D: I, I really… I've had an indecent amount of fun discussing every one of these films. Please tell the people where they can find you and support you online.
AG: Oh, thanks. Yeah. I had such a good time talking about these movies, and I would have talked about a thousand other movies with you guys. I am @AllieGoertz on all the things. And if you wanna listen to a weird Nine Inch Nails cover album, you could look up Allie Goertz on all of the things.
C: I do, and I'm going to.
AG: Oh, perfect.
D: And, and please find CossbySweater, the first album, as well. Cossby with two s's.
AG: Yes. Regrettable band name. We regret it, but the songs, the songs, I… do stand up.
A: Who knew? Who knew?
D: Alright. Thank you so much, Allie. Thank you so much. Yeah.
C: Thanks, Allie. So nice to meet you.
A: Nice to meet you.
AG: Yay. Nice to meet you. Have a good one. Bye.
[some of Allie Goertz’s album Peeled Back plays]
[fanfare from The Thin Man plays]
YOU CAN READ THE HIP POCKET REVIEW OF THE THIN MAN HERE.
D: This is number two in the books, guys, unbelievably. And, before we wrap this up, I want each of you to pick your favorite performance from any of today's movies.
A: Okay. I'll go first. Not necessarily performance… well, performance and scene. Allison Brie in a bikini dancing to “Modern Love.” That lives in my head forever. I love that scene. She's incredible.
D: It's a great scene.
C: It's a great scene.
D: Craig?
C: I said it before, but I can't get it out of my head. Eugene Levy in A Mighty Wind is a revelation.
D: Yeah.
C: And he plays… he could have played that, you know, he's burned out. Right? I mean, it's not so much mental illness or whatever or deficiency as it is just he's a burner. I would've… and just that guy. It's like a Brian Wilson kinda thing. Right?
D: Exactly.
C: And it's very subtle.
D: Yeah. It’s, it's a terrific performance. I, I agree with you, man.
C: Yeah. That's my pick.
A: As silly as he is, he never overplays it. Like you said, it's not, you know, it's just amazing.
D: And that's the kind of performance that can easily veer into, it didn't work. I get the big swing he took, but I don't believe the reality. I believe that Mitch could be that and be functional. And…
C: Yeah.
D: … you know, that it never comes across as an absurd character that could not operate in the real world.
C: I think he's channeling Carl Sagan in some of it.
D: I think there's some of that.
C: Yeah.
D: It’s, it, it is a very particular… just… rhythm, and he finds an odd music to the guy and a, a weird sort of way of getting the words out. And, yeah, it's so good. I, I think for me, it's Shaloub. I, I kinda… again, when I watch this movie, I walk away really blown away by it every time. And as much as Tucci has keep all the balls in the air as as Segundo, and he drives the movie… so much of the engine of the movie is just Tucci and his constant motion and his constant trying to make things happen… it's Primo who I think is the heart and soul of that film. And it is because there is such quietness and such a sense of he really has a center. He knows what he does well, and he knows who he is. And Segundo hasn't found that. I think it… there's a, there's a weird pity that he has for his brother that even in the moments where Segundo really screws him over and he's angry at him, more than anything, he pities him because he'll never cook the way he does. He'll never truly understand what it is to be that guy. And I think there's a… he understands. Like, you don't have what I have. You… so you don't really get what I feel. It… that performance guts me, man. What a lineup, though. What a great group of films.
C: Man, love this. So fun.
D: I can't wait for next time, guys. We have such a wild lineup still ahead.
And, yeah, I, I think it's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out where, you know, these… the cumulative number of films that we're seeing, the types of films we're seeing, I'm really excited because the next batch, just as cool as this one. Alright? We'll talk to you next time, guys.
A: Bye, guys. Thanks.
[the Hip Pocket theme plays]
NEXT TIME
We’ve got a very special guest, a novelist and comedian who has conquered TikTok despite being, as the kids say, “An Old.” He’s picked three very specific movies from 1999 and we dig deeply into them. Get ready for American Beauty, Fight Club, and Office Space, with our reaction film, Alan J. Pakula’s criminally underseen Orphans.
See you back here in one week!
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