Let’s get the Saturday Free-For-All back on the rails. And let’s table all the COVID-19 talk for a while. We all get it by this point. It’s been weird so many days in a row that it’s starting to feel normal.
When I ask you guys a question here on these Saturdays, all I’m looking to do is start a conversation, and part of that is participation on my part. I’m not just here to throw up a post and disappear. You guys are making a decision to use your time and energy to support this newsletter by reading it, and I want to know more about you as a group and as people.
There are some of you who are already comfortable posting about most topics. And I’m sure there are some of you who have no interest in posting about anything. That’s fair, too. You’re just here to read something, and you don’t want to participate.
Earlier today, I went for a walk here in LA, and the thing that struck me most was how incredibly beautiful it is outside right now. I’ve lived here since 1990, and I’ve never seen air quality like this. I’ve never smelled LA smelling like it does right now, especially after a week of rain on top of everything else. It’s remarkable.
As always, I want you to use this space for any conversation you feel like having, and in particular, I’m curious how many of you are reading during all of this. It’s one thing to sort of passively absorb some movies or TV shows as a way of coping, but books always transport me in a different way. I just read a terrific first novel called The Last Human by Zack Jordan, and another terrific first novel called Most Likely by Sarah Watson, and I’m finding that reading is a balm that almost can’t be matched right now for me.
How about it? What’s on your mind this week?
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Hey! Your book is fascinating. I love the cultural side of it, but I also think you have a great touch with character. I read a lot of books that feel like they're so busy setting up a series that I don't care what's happening in this particular story, but this was the opposite. Great compelling stand-alone story, but what a great world you've built now for more storytelling.
It's called THE LAST HUMAN, and it's about a little girl who is exactly that. She's being raised by a Widow, a giant spider-like creature, and she's registered as something else, because the world in which she lives is a world where humans were eradicated by necessity, and she would be considered a huge threat if anyone knew what she was.
It's a little HITCHHIKER'S at times (I really love the pressure suit Eleven) and it's got some great ideas about the way intelligence works and it's a lovely mother-daughter story with a startling amount of violence and it's a lot of other things besides. It's spiffy.
Thanks for this. Here’s something that’s been in my head for a couple weeks now, and haven’t had a chance to blather it out.
Lately I haven’t wanted to watch anything new - meaning anything made in the last 10 years or so. Maybe it’s regression, I dunno. But right now period is where my head is. My wife and I were watching a bunch old older romcoms, and then I suggested AGE OF INNOCENCE. Always been one of my favourite Scorsese’s, from the day it opened. Honestly think it’s one of his best, easily top 10. And it didn’t disappoint. If anything, it gets better every viewing.
But for the first time, I realized that there is an entire other movie I kind of...not missed, but never gave enough weight to. And the best way I can explain it is to use Scorses’s own famous quote that cinema is a question of what’s in the frame - but just as importantly, what’s OUT of the frame.
So the story is ostensibly about Newland Archer, his engagement to the socially acceptable May Welland, and his doomed love for Countess Ellen Olenska. And by the end, he realizes that both women have decided his fate, and May in particular has ensured he will remain hers for life. A tragic, somewhat pathetic tale of a life unlived. That’s the story IN the frame.
But the story OUT of the frame is about two women, completely at the mercy of a brutal and pitiless patriarchy (sorry for the cliche, but still). Any woman not accepted by it is cast out, and left to fend for herself. A man could go off and be a scandal, but still work, live, etc. A woman? Where would she go that she isn’t at the mercy of even worse men and mores? We see several examples throughout, and it isn’t pretty.
In THIS story, the very sensible, smart and sympathetic May ensures not that she has “the right husband” (she even gives him a chance to leave, and I think it’s sincere), but that she (and her family, without a son of its own) can survive in this tribal society. And protects poor weak indecisive Newland too. I. This story, if she isn’t a hero, she is at least the protagonist of her own drama. And she succeeds. And her family survives.
This may not seem all that surprising to anybody else. Maybe that was always the point. But I guess I just got it. What I always took to be a classic Tragic Love Story was also a secret or whispered tale of survival. And maybe that’s why Newland never went up to see Ellen in the end. Maybe he finally understood that she did what she had to survive as well. Thanks to men like him.
Thoughts? Obvious? Way off base? Would love to hear anybody else on this. “Well, duh”’s are welcome...
I think you're right on, and this is one of the films that's on my Long Movies list I put together to watch again very soon. I'll keep this for when I do end up playing it and come back to pick the conversation up then.
From one Adam to another you're not alone as I've felt exactly the same about not wanting anything new. The other day I watched Shadowlands for the first time and I thought it was wonderful! We obviously know Anthony Hopkins can act but it showed a side of him I wasn't familiar with. Add an equally fine performance from Deborah Winger and together they were a revelation for me. What you say about the things that happen off camera kind of ring true here as well. Its one of the things I like about period pieces. You have to read between the lines and navigate old fashioned social mores. In the case of Shadowlands you also have a character in CS Lewis who is extremely intelligent and erudite yet steadfastly refuses to admit his feelings or at least is confounded by them. You get so frustrated by it as a viewer that when that release comes you're overcome with emotion. I made the mistake of looking up CS Lewis while watching which clued me into what might happen in the film but I was still deeply moved regardless. It also made me want to watch more Deborah Winger and think what the hell happened to her? More than all that though It felt soothing to be transported to another time and to just slow down and let things breathe. It's also refreshing to watch something that doesn't have phones, computers and other modern technology. I've never seen Age Of Innocence so thank you for putting it on my Radar. I'll have to track it down.
I just finished a TNG rewatch. While I prefer DS9 for being far more real and honest about humanity, TNG's "no discord" rule was actually kind of nice.
I read the book first in college & walked away at that age thinking Newland was more heroic than he actually is (until the end) for kneeling to the pressures of family, society and sacrificing true love. Then you see Marty directing and Daniel Day-Lewis as Newland and that alone fucks your mind into thinking he's more "put upon" and not allowed to be with the woman he loves and how tragically heroic all that is.
Now older, I see this film with different eyes. I do think Newland and the Countess are being kept apart by society, but I also think it's an example of idealizing the partner you can't have vs. the one you're with. Everything was fleeting and moments between the Countess and Newland. He was a younger man then and his passions were that of a younger man -- the more exciting, dangerous love affair was preferred to the one society approved of. May was easy. Ellen was dramatic. There's a moment in the film where Newland is in the box at the over the top romantic play at the theater where Lefferts mocks him for having seen this histrionic romance play in London AND NY -- as if who could possibly sit through this romantic tripe again. Newland is in love with romantic fairy tales.
I think by the time he grows older and has lost May, he no longer is chasing that dream and has mostly outgrown it having lived a life. You hear his inner monologue at the end of the film try to justify to him that 57 isn't too old. He's still batting that hopeless romantic he was as a younger man. That said, May does lie about a pregnancy to the Countess to get her the fuck out of Manhattan before she actually knows she's pregnant. May is the most cunning of the trio and it without a doubt her Grandmother's Granddaughter. I do agree with you that she's the secret protagonist of the piece. She sits back and tells Newland and the Countess to go have your fun, but this is how it's going to be in the end. And she does it with a innocent smile.
The interesting thing about the AGE OF INNOCENCE is while men were technically ruling the roost, women had a lot of control. They survived these dopey rich men and their inherited wealth brought power and they did what they could to exert it. That last scene when the social elite rally around May to keep Ellen away from Newland at their final gathering is brilliant. And it's all organized by a group of women, his wife, his mother, sister, her mother, etc. to make certain that Newland doesn't get the countess alone one more time to convince her to run away with him. The men in the piece are mostly pompous fools and dreamers.
Where I do disagree with you is I think May, if she didn't marry Newland, would've been fine. She would've found another rich man to marry rich families with. I do think she loved Newland fiercely. Fiercely enough to lie and fight to keep him unlike the Countess who was resigned to just walk away. Newland was the man May wanted by her side and out of the 3 main characters, she's the most active in the end.
Sorry for the delay in replying. Anybody else finding these days at home going way faster than when we had to go out?
I pretty much agree with all your comments, and had the same change in view over time (although I never actually read the book, so all my thoughts come from the movie. Sounds like it was a faithful adaptation tho).
I should probably clarify my comments about women being at the complete mercy of this system. You’re right that May could have gotten another husband — but I think she was wise enough to know it was a question of timing. She gave Newland his chance to either break off the engagement, or “have his fun” for a time. But I think she also knew that once married, a divorce would be seriously damaging. She would have survived, but at what level? And what would the gossips say? The example of the philandering Brit and how he ruins his wife’s reputation is, I think, meant to show what May would NEVER accept.
I totally agree that what seemed like a classic tale of a tragic romance becomes much more complex and critical the older you get. Mark of a truly great story. It grows with you. Or you grow with it. So good.
My 8 year old has asked for a Mission Impossible... I think he’s ready, but is there a definitive “starter” M:I you’d recommend? I don’t think the origins the best place to start for him...
We started with number four, for our oldest when she was 9. She actually hasn’t seen the first 3 yet, just everything that came after - and she loves them. She’s eleven now - action and action comedy are her favorite type of movies.
I'd either go with 3 or 4. If you start with 3, it feels like you get the whole franchise, and you can go back later if they're really curious about 1 and 2.
Haha yeah it is, and it introduces his wife... but we skipped it because it feels much more intense for that age. That’s a parental decision of course!
Also my wife and I agreed 4 would hook her, while 3 might not.
I'm finding myself very intrigued by the work of director Leos Carax. I haven't watched them yet, because I don't know where to start? Where should I start with the filmography of this European maestro of cinema?
I've become a big, big fan of Brandon Sanderson as an author. He's writing epic fantasy by the barrel-load. Dude's as prolific as Stephen King . His major works are Mistborn and The Way of Kings, and he's creating this vast unified storyline that ties all his different fantasy worlds together in one actual solar system. He also was the guy who wrapped up the Wheel of Time after the author died. I promise I'm not related to the guy or anything, but I've become a pretty solid fan after plowing through his bibliography. If you want to ease in, he wrote a standalone fantasy novel called Warbreaker that's both published in print and also free to read on his website. Worth it if you like epic fantasy, which I know is a bit too much of a time devotion for some.
Dude, I've had to take deliberate breaks between his books to pace myself. He is so unbelievably good at closing out a book in a satisfying way that I want to rush into the next thing immediately afterwards, forgetting that what I actually want more of in that moment is the ending of the book I just finished, not the slow buildup of the next one.
Feel like I might be ready soon for the second mistborn book, having finished the first one at the end of last year. I've already read all of the Stormlight stuff, what's your favorite of his series besides that one?
His Mistborn Era 2 stuff I find really innovative, with Wax and Wayne. The idea of a world with magic that has advanced to an Industrial Age setting and blends that level of technology with magic is fascinating. Especially because it doesn't just become steampunk in his world, but something where the magic still stands apart from the tech, yet with plots involving train heists and the like.
In his non-Cosmere works, I think his Reckoners series is amazing, with his concept that in a world where lots of people get superpowers, every single one of them would turn evil as a result.
Not that the recommendation above isn't a good one, but if time constraint is an issue then his novella "The Emperor's Soul" has everything I like about his writing in a short package (at least a far cry from the length of his Stormlight archives installments). I was introduced to his writing with this one and got my girlfriend into him that way as well. A really good story that I feel especially showcases his ability to build a world both economically and solidly.
Yeah, seconded. It's a great story, but might be hard to track down on its own. It did get a standalone printing, if you can find it. Incredibly compact writing, especially for its epic fantasy genre.
I don’t read as much as I’d like due to timing with work and family. So I do audiobooks while I’m running instead, which is usually excellent. I normally have a few different books going at once, to suit the mood. The Last Human sounds great and I’ll grab it with my next credit.
That said, it’s been harder to listen to any audiobooks while running lately. It has to be music cause I can’t concentrate like normal - and I’m really missing it honestly.
The air quality is amazing. I live in DTLA and every day I open my bedroom windows as wide as they go and sit on my bed looking out the window. I had never ever done that in 6 years in this apt and now it’s my sacred ritual. Really into listening to the Mario paint background music while doing so if I’m feeling particularly dank.
I don’t read as often as I like, but I’ve been taking the time in quarantine reading Harry Turtledove’s Worldwar tetralogy. I love world war 2 history, I love alternate history, and I love alien invasion stories, so right up my alley!
Just started reading The Black Prism, which starts out nicely. At the very least it’s a fantasy book that can tide me over until I can handle more Brandon Sanderson, which I sort of overdosed on last year. It’s been really nice getting stuck into a good book again in these weird times,much more calming for me than shows and games.
This series is amazing! I loved every book! Wasn’t so keen on the magic system at first but about half way through the first book I was sold. It’s one of those series I wish I could erase from my brain so that I could read it fresh again! Enjoy.
Right now, I’m reading THE SCIENCE OF STORY TELLING by Will Storr. He talks about how your brain reacts and doesn’t react to story, and it’s pretty interesting. For fun I just got through reading THE PHILOSOPHERS WAR two book series by Tom Miller. It was fantastic - compulsively readable.
I tried out the Drafthouse-at-home thing and saw CENTIPEDE HORROR. I loved it. If you've seen it, the thing with the chicken bones made me happier than anything I've seen in months.
It's from that weird subgenre of films "Based on an article by," and more specifically, articles about lifestyles. Travolta did that at least three times, with this, SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER, and PERFECT, and if he'd starred in AN OFFICER & A GENTLEMAN like he was supposed to, that would have been four.
I do not read typically, but there are a great many books I’ve gotten over the years I should make a point of getting to over this time- I might start next week with the Ahsoka book that came out a few years ago.
This week, my wife and I started to binge SyFy’s “Haven” on Netflix on a whim. We’ve gotten into it, although I’m not sure if it’s something I’ll ever revisit. I’m also watching Scorsese’s faith trilogy- I watched “The Last Temptation of Christ” on Sunday,” and “Kundun” yesterday; I plan on watching “Silence” tomorrow.
I'm a big, big, big fan of LAST TEMPTATION and KUNDUN. SILENCE didn't really land for me the first time. I may need to give it a second try when it's not being screened at the last second for LAFCA consideration and it doesn't have that kind of weird pressure attached.
I picked up Kino Lorber’s Blu-Ray of “Kundun” recently and my goodness I hadn’t had an experience with the movie like that since theatres in 1998. Cannot wait to dig into those extras.
“Silence” is definitely a challenge, but I love how it works with the same basic idea “Last Temptation” and “Kundun” have in a spiritual leader struggling with his faith, and his ability to lead others in turbulent political times.
Hey Drew! Excited to find this after having listened to and now (re-listening to!) all of your '80s All Over content and appreciate you making the patreon stuff available now. After I'm done posting here I'm going to sub up for the year because I've been a fan way back since the AICN days. As for what I'm reading it might be better to ask what I'm not reading... Simultaneously and depending on my mood..Nashawaty's Caddyshack book, selections from With Nails, Richard E. Grant's film diaries, Scott Snyder's American Vampire hardcover collection, rereading Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby because I am desperately missing Premier League, intermittently enjoying Gary Janetti's short essay collection, Do you Mind if I Cancel? and just starting Kate Racculia's Bellwether Rhapsody after hearing it recommended on NPR. Can you tell I cut the cord on my cable? 🤔
Sounds like you read like I do. I typically have three or four books going at least, and sometimes more. When I list books in the Friday Spotlight, I only list the books I finished that week. I figure that's the way I tally them.
Sorry I'm late to the party. I did some spring cleaning on my MacBook that took all weekend plus an extra day.
I finally bit the bullet and purchased a DCU subscription (though only monthly, as I'm still convinced WB will fold it into HBO Max in some way). The original content (Young Justice and Titans) are good, and I love being able to watch Green Lantern: TAS for the first time. Talk about a show that was cancelled far too soon. From what I understand, it failed because the movie sucked, so no one wanted to watch it. It's a shame, because the show is everything the movie should have been, as is the case about anything Bruce Timm produces.
Mainly though, I've been using the sub to read comics from my youth on my Fire Tablet. It's one of the reasons I didn't get a sub two years ago: no Xbox or Fire Tablet app. Now that they have both, I'm able to read these amazing books I haven't seen in 25 years or more. The Dixon run on Nightwing that began in the mid-90's is FUCKING AMAZING! Marz's relaunch of Green Lantern with Kyle Raynor is also great. While I'll always prefer Johns's Rebirth of Hal Jordan as the one true Lantern, so to speak, I loved reading about Kyle trying to figure everything out mostly on his own when I was a kid, and now I get to read it again. If you love DC Comics back in 90's and early 00's before writing and characters really fell-off during the mostly terrible New 52, I can't recommend a DCU sub enough.
As a child/early-teen, my comic book heroes were Sylvester, The Nebbish, and Alfred E. Newman. I didn't, therefore, read much other works in comics, even the greats.
Finally finished Watchmen over the weekend; inspired to read it as a prelude to either watching the Snyder film, the Lindelof sequel-series, or maybe both. I now know how someone would feel reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2020... not a bad thing, but a combination of "oh, now I know why people like this so much" and "damn, I wish I'd read it during its time."
Context-switching to non-fiction: Fault Lines from Kevin Kruse and Julian Zelizer. Probably might be more depressing now, but I'm very curious how contemporary-of-mine Kruse documents the history we lived through.
Keeping up with '80s wannabes, I finally caught up with the first 2/3rds or so of "Young Sherlock Holmes" (I saw the back 3rd a while back), one of the great examples of a big-studio tentpole movie so desperate to be The Next Big Thing that it tries to be everything popular at once ON TOP OF what it should be. It's not as bad as "Howard the Duck" or "Van Helsing" or "The Lone Ranger" -- it looks great, it isn't 2+ hours, and I'm pretty sure in some alternate universe Nicholas Rowe became a star -- but it's easy to see why people didn't respond to it in 1985. (Though I am shocked that another would-be tentpole, "Santa Claus the Movie", which admittedly lost far more money, actually posted a bigger box office gross that Christmas -- and I will defend that movie). Also, it's pretty much a template for all the belated prequels we've been getting in recent years, starting with the Star Wars ones.
Being someone who has a tendency to buy DVDs/Blus in order to make sure he has them... and never watches them, let alone open them (DON'T JUDGE ME), I've started doing Unwrapped Cinema.
I've already seen the films, just not seen them on DVD/Blu.
I've watched PRINCE OF DARKNESS and HAYWIRE already, and have nearly twenty more to go! Plus, Shout Factory sale hasn't made it easier!
If you're like me, I highly recommend it as a way to pass time and free the media from their plastic prisons!
Last year I was unemployed for about 8 months. I was on unemployment for most of that time so I fell into a routine that worked for me. I could read and write and watch movies and workout. Really make the most of the free time. Watched tons of movies, read a ton of books, and I got 4 scripts done in that time. I'm back in that routine. I'm working from home, but it's a quick workload and I have plenty of time to do all I want to do. So I'm really just trying to keep myself busy in many ways. Actively engaged or just relaxing. I keep finding myself really blown away by how quickly things can turn around in a year. From the lowest point in my life to actually pretty comfortable, all the while the world around me is burning down. Just an insane cognitive dissonance going on.
So I watched THE POISON ROSE last night, a Neo-Noir with Travolta and Morgan Freeman and a barely recognizable Brendan Fraser (who nearly stole the movie. THE POISON ROSE is a terrible movie with slumming actors, a lazy script, and leaden Noir narration from John Travolta. (Not to mention the worst hairpiece I've seen in quite some time.) It's got a 0% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and for good reason.
And yet I ate it up. There's something about Noir that speaks to me, sometimes even when the movie is terrible. (And this one really is.) There's something about one capable, tarnished man trying to make good that gets me every time. I can't defend it, I can't explain it, but I can observe it. I really cannot recommend this movie on any level, and yet I enjoyed THE POISON ROSE as much for the genre tropes as anything.
Question: Is this normal? I understand liking a well-crafted movie. I even understand enjoying a fun one which suffers from a lack of craftsmanship. But what is it about specific genre films which satisfy even while the film itself is objectively garbage?
I saw a movie from 2012ish with Jeffrey Dean Morgan called THE COURIER. It was another terrible Neo-Noir film that I couldn't recommend to anyone but which I enjoyed in the watching. It's strange. Does anyone else have a genre you adore despite the relative quality of the film?
Oh, I think there are definitely genres where we'll forgive way more, and it's different for everyone. I am that way with horror. I'll try almost anything looking for gems, and I forgive a lot as long as it's baseline competent.
I tend to be this way with regards to musicals and older (pre-'90s) feature animation, a mixture of my like of the medium and sheer curiosity. I was browsing this thread just as I was catching "Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night", Filmation's 1987 mockbuster (released by New World Pictures!) on Pluto TV. It's pretty awful, but it's an amusing kind of awful as the filmmakers desperately try to transcend the limitations of the budget and their talents. Also, Rickie Lee Jones's attempt at acting as the voice of the Good Fairy is unintentional comedy gold, and the second half basically turning into the kiddie version of "Forbidden Zone" (much the way you described the dream sequence in "Heidi's Song" as the G-rated version of the reshot "Night Wind") with some "Legend" mixed in is fun too. Once again, I'm reminded of how much I miss 80s All Over because you and Scott would have had a ball tearing into this one for the December 1987 episode. Funny -- it came out the same month as "Empire of the Sun" and "The Last Emperor". Were emperors/empires just trendy in 1987 and I missed it at the age of 9?
"The missing person he’s trying to locate is an old lady whom he believes is held against her will in a sanitarium run by a pulchritudinous replica of what used to be Brendan Fraser. He plays a crooked doctor who runs a methadone lab and kills off half the town with bad drugs."
Well this is the best thing I could have seen tonight.
Hey! Your book is fascinating. I love the cultural side of it, but I also think you have a great touch with character. I read a lot of books that feel like they're so busy setting up a series that I don't care what's happening in this particular story, but this was the opposite. Great compelling stand-alone story, but what a great world you've built now for more storytelling.
Glad to see you here!
Thanks man! I can’t tell you what it means to hear that it’s connected with someone.
Ooh, Space Opera. <added to TBR list>
Just FYI - this alerted me to the book and I’ve got my next credit on Audible pegged for it.
Thank you! I’ve been listening to it on Audible too, if that’s not too weird. Bahni Turpin just nailed it.
What’s your book, Zack? Plug it!
It's mentioned in the piece above.
It's called THE LAST HUMAN, and it's about a little girl who is exactly that. She's being raised by a Widow, a giant spider-like creature, and she's registered as something else, because the world in which she lives is a world where humans were eradicated by necessity, and she would be considered a huge threat if anyone knew what she was.
It's a little HITCHHIKER'S at times (I really love the pressure suit Eleven) and it's got some great ideas about the way intelligence works and it's a lovely mother-daughter story with a startling amount of violence and it's a lot of other things besides. It's spiffy.
Thanks Drew. I blindly missed it.
sup pops
TOSHINATOR. You excited to see GODFATHER II when you're here next week, buddy?
hellllll yeah
Thanks for this. Here’s something that’s been in my head for a couple weeks now, and haven’t had a chance to blather it out.
Lately I haven’t wanted to watch anything new - meaning anything made in the last 10 years or so. Maybe it’s regression, I dunno. But right now period is where my head is. My wife and I were watching a bunch old older romcoms, and then I suggested AGE OF INNOCENCE. Always been one of my favourite Scorsese’s, from the day it opened. Honestly think it’s one of his best, easily top 10. And it didn’t disappoint. If anything, it gets better every viewing.
But for the first time, I realized that there is an entire other movie I kind of...not missed, but never gave enough weight to. And the best way I can explain it is to use Scorses’s own famous quote that cinema is a question of what’s in the frame - but just as importantly, what’s OUT of the frame.
So the story is ostensibly about Newland Archer, his engagement to the socially acceptable May Welland, and his doomed love for Countess Ellen Olenska. And by the end, he realizes that both women have decided his fate, and May in particular has ensured he will remain hers for life. A tragic, somewhat pathetic tale of a life unlived. That’s the story IN the frame.
But the story OUT of the frame is about two women, completely at the mercy of a brutal and pitiless patriarchy (sorry for the cliche, but still). Any woman not accepted by it is cast out, and left to fend for herself. A man could go off and be a scandal, but still work, live, etc. A woman? Where would she go that she isn’t at the mercy of even worse men and mores? We see several examples throughout, and it isn’t pretty.
In THIS story, the very sensible, smart and sympathetic May ensures not that she has “the right husband” (she even gives him a chance to leave, and I think it’s sincere), but that she (and her family, without a son of its own) can survive in this tribal society. And protects poor weak indecisive Newland too. I. This story, if she isn’t a hero, she is at least the protagonist of her own drama. And she succeeds. And her family survives.
This may not seem all that surprising to anybody else. Maybe that was always the point. But I guess I just got it. What I always took to be a classic Tragic Love Story was also a secret or whispered tale of survival. And maybe that’s why Newland never went up to see Ellen in the end. Maybe he finally understood that she did what she had to survive as well. Thanks to men like him.
Thoughts? Obvious? Way off base? Would love to hear anybody else on this. “Well, duh”’s are welcome...
I think you're right on, and this is one of the films that's on my Long Movies list I put together to watch again very soon. I'll keep this for when I do end up playing it and come back to pick the conversation up then.
From one Adam to another you're not alone as I've felt exactly the same about not wanting anything new. The other day I watched Shadowlands for the first time and I thought it was wonderful! We obviously know Anthony Hopkins can act but it showed a side of him I wasn't familiar with. Add an equally fine performance from Deborah Winger and together they were a revelation for me. What you say about the things that happen off camera kind of ring true here as well. Its one of the things I like about period pieces. You have to read between the lines and navigate old fashioned social mores. In the case of Shadowlands you also have a character in CS Lewis who is extremely intelligent and erudite yet steadfastly refuses to admit his feelings or at least is confounded by them. You get so frustrated by it as a viewer that when that release comes you're overcome with emotion. I made the mistake of looking up CS Lewis while watching which clued me into what might happen in the film but I was still deeply moved regardless. It also made me want to watch more Deborah Winger and think what the hell happened to her? More than all that though It felt soothing to be transported to another time and to just slow down and let things breathe. It's also refreshing to watch something that doesn't have phones, computers and other modern technology. I've never seen Age Of Innocence so thank you for putting it on my Radar. I'll have to track it down.
You know, I’ve never actually seen Shadowlands myself. So I’ll watch that while you watch Age. Nice trade.
I just finished a TNG rewatch. While I prefer DS9 for being far more real and honest about humanity, TNG's "no discord" rule was actually kind of nice.
I read the book first in college & walked away at that age thinking Newland was more heroic than he actually is (until the end) for kneeling to the pressures of family, society and sacrificing true love. Then you see Marty directing and Daniel Day-Lewis as Newland and that alone fucks your mind into thinking he's more "put upon" and not allowed to be with the woman he loves and how tragically heroic all that is.
Now older, I see this film with different eyes. I do think Newland and the Countess are being kept apart by society, but I also think it's an example of idealizing the partner you can't have vs. the one you're with. Everything was fleeting and moments between the Countess and Newland. He was a younger man then and his passions were that of a younger man -- the more exciting, dangerous love affair was preferred to the one society approved of. May was easy. Ellen was dramatic. There's a moment in the film where Newland is in the box at the over the top romantic play at the theater where Lefferts mocks him for having seen this histrionic romance play in London AND NY -- as if who could possibly sit through this romantic tripe again. Newland is in love with romantic fairy tales.
I think by the time he grows older and has lost May, he no longer is chasing that dream and has mostly outgrown it having lived a life. You hear his inner monologue at the end of the film try to justify to him that 57 isn't too old. He's still batting that hopeless romantic he was as a younger man. That said, May does lie about a pregnancy to the Countess to get her the fuck out of Manhattan before she actually knows she's pregnant. May is the most cunning of the trio and it without a doubt her Grandmother's Granddaughter. I do agree with you that she's the secret protagonist of the piece. She sits back and tells Newland and the Countess to go have your fun, but this is how it's going to be in the end. And she does it with a innocent smile.
The interesting thing about the AGE OF INNOCENCE is while men were technically ruling the roost, women had a lot of control. They survived these dopey rich men and their inherited wealth brought power and they did what they could to exert it. That last scene when the social elite rally around May to keep Ellen away from Newland at their final gathering is brilliant. And it's all organized by a group of women, his wife, his mother, sister, her mother, etc. to make certain that Newland doesn't get the countess alone one more time to convince her to run away with him. The men in the piece are mostly pompous fools and dreamers.
Where I do disagree with you is I think May, if she didn't marry Newland, would've been fine. She would've found another rich man to marry rich families with. I do think she loved Newland fiercely. Fiercely enough to lie and fight to keep him unlike the Countess who was resigned to just walk away. Newland was the man May wanted by her side and out of the 3 main characters, she's the most active in the end.
Sorry for the delay in replying. Anybody else finding these days at home going way faster than when we had to go out?
I pretty much agree with all your comments, and had the same change in view over time (although I never actually read the book, so all my thoughts come from the movie. Sounds like it was a faithful adaptation tho).
I should probably clarify my comments about women being at the complete mercy of this system. You’re right that May could have gotten another husband — but I think she was wise enough to know it was a question of timing. She gave Newland his chance to either break off the engagement, or “have his fun” for a time. But I think she also knew that once married, a divorce would be seriously damaging. She would have survived, but at what level? And what would the gossips say? The example of the philandering Brit and how he ruins his wife’s reputation is, I think, meant to show what May would NEVER accept.
I totally agree that what seemed like a classic tale of a tragic romance becomes much more complex and critical the older you get. Mark of a truly great story. It grows with you. Or you grow with it. So good.
My 8 year old has asked for a Mission Impossible... I think he’s ready, but is there a definitive “starter” M:I you’d recommend? I don’t think the origins the best place to start for him...
We started with number four, for our oldest when she was 9. She actually hasn’t seen the first 3 yet, just everything that came after - and she loves them. She’s eleven now - action and action comedy are her favorite type of movies.
I'd either go with 3 or 4. If you start with 3, it feels like you get the whole franchise, and you can go back later if they're really curious about 1 and 2.
4 is what I’m thinking... but 3 is the beginning of the Bad Robot era. But... that’s more my issue than his. Thanks!
Haha yeah it is, and it introduces his wife... but we skipped it because it feels much more intense for that age. That’s a parental decision of course!
Also my wife and I agreed 4 would hook her, while 3 might not.
Original, that is...
Seeing Toshi hailing you on the thread just made my morning. And made me feel old!
I'm finding myself very intrigued by the work of director Leos Carax. I haven't watched them yet, because I don't know where to start? Where should I start with the filmography of this European maestro of cinema?
That's such an exciting question.
I would start with HOLY MOTORS. If you like that, you've got an exciting ride ahead of you.
If you don't, hell, you still saw HOLY MOTORS.
I've become a big, big fan of Brandon Sanderson as an author. He's writing epic fantasy by the barrel-load. Dude's as prolific as Stephen King . His major works are Mistborn and The Way of Kings, and he's creating this vast unified storyline that ties all his different fantasy worlds together in one actual solar system. He also was the guy who wrapped up the Wheel of Time after the author died. I promise I'm not related to the guy or anything, but I've become a pretty solid fan after plowing through his bibliography. If you want to ease in, he wrote a standalone fantasy novel called Warbreaker that's both published in print and also free to read on his website. Worth it if you like epic fantasy, which I know is a bit too much of a time devotion for some.
Dude, I've had to take deliberate breaks between his books to pace myself. He is so unbelievably good at closing out a book in a satisfying way that I want to rush into the next thing immediately afterwards, forgetting that what I actually want more of in that moment is the ending of the book I just finished, not the slow buildup of the next one.
Feel like I might be ready soon for the second mistborn book, having finished the first one at the end of last year. I've already read all of the Stormlight stuff, what's your favorite of his series besides that one?
His Mistborn Era 2 stuff I find really innovative, with Wax and Wayne. The idea of a world with magic that has advanced to an Industrial Age setting and blends that level of technology with magic is fascinating. Especially because it doesn't just become steampunk in his world, but something where the magic still stands apart from the tech, yet with plots involving train heists and the like.
In his non-Cosmere works, I think his Reckoners series is amazing, with his concept that in a world where lots of people get superpowers, every single one of them would turn evil as a result.
I don't know his work at all, but I'll take this as a recommendation to get to know him, for sure!
Not that the recommendation above isn't a good one, but if time constraint is an issue then his novella "The Emperor's Soul" has everything I like about his writing in a short package (at least a far cry from the length of his Stormlight archives installments). I was introduced to his writing with this one and got my girlfriend into him that way as well. A really good story that I feel especially showcases his ability to build a world both economically and solidly.
Yeah, seconded. It's a great story, but might be hard to track down on its own. It did get a standalone printing, if you can find it. Incredibly compact writing, especially for its epic fantasy genre.
I don’t read as much as I’d like due to timing with work and family. So I do audiobooks while I’m running instead, which is usually excellent. I normally have a few different books going at once, to suit the mood. The Last Human sounds great and I’ll grab it with my next credit.
That said, it’s been harder to listen to any audiobooks while running lately. It has to be music cause I can’t concentrate like normal - and I’m really missing it honestly.
The air quality is amazing. I live in DTLA and every day I open my bedroom windows as wide as they go and sit on my bed looking out the window. I had never ever done that in 6 years in this apt and now it’s my sacred ritual. Really into listening to the Mario paint background music while doing so if I’m feeling particularly dank.
I don’t read as often as I like, but I’ve been taking the time in quarantine reading Harry Turtledove’s Worldwar tetralogy. I love world war 2 history, I love alternate history, and I love alien invasion stories, so right up my alley!
Just started reading The Black Prism, which starts out nicely. At the very least it’s a fantasy book that can tide me over until I can handle more Brandon Sanderson, which I sort of overdosed on last year. It’s been really nice getting stuck into a good book again in these weird times,much more calming for me than shows and games.
This series is amazing! I loved every book! Wasn’t so keen on the magic system at first but about half way through the first book I was sold. It’s one of those series I wish I could erase from my brain so that I could read it fresh again! Enjoy.
Right now, I’m reading THE SCIENCE OF STORY TELLING by Will Storr. He talks about how your brain reacts and doesn’t react to story, and it’s pretty interesting. For fun I just got through reading THE PHILOSOPHERS WAR two book series by Tom Miller. It was fantastic - compulsively readable.
Don't know either one of these, but I'm going to make note of both of them. Thanks!
I tried out the Drafthouse-at-home thing and saw CENTIPEDE HORROR. I loved it. If you've seen it, the thing with the chicken bones made me happier than anything I've seen in months.
Is URBAN COWBOY a sports movie or slice of life?
It's from that weird subgenre of films "Based on an article by," and more specifically, articles about lifestyles. Travolta did that at least three times, with this, SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER, and PERFECT, and if he'd starred in AN OFFICER & A GENTLEMAN like he was supposed to, that would have been four.
I do not read typically, but there are a great many books I’ve gotten over the years I should make a point of getting to over this time- I might start next week with the Ahsoka book that came out a few years ago.
This week, my wife and I started to binge SyFy’s “Haven” on Netflix on a whim. We’ve gotten into it, although I’m not sure if it’s something I’ll ever revisit. I’m also watching Scorsese’s faith trilogy- I watched “The Last Temptation of Christ” on Sunday,” and “Kundun” yesterday; I plan on watching “Silence” tomorrow.
I'm a big, big, big fan of LAST TEMPTATION and KUNDUN. SILENCE didn't really land for me the first time. I may need to give it a second try when it's not being screened at the last second for LAFCA consideration and it doesn't have that kind of weird pressure attached.
I picked up Kino Lorber’s Blu-Ray of “Kundun” recently and my goodness I hadn’t had an experience with the movie like that since theatres in 1998. Cannot wait to dig into those extras.
“Silence” is definitely a challenge, but I love how it works with the same basic idea “Last Temptation” and “Kundun” have in a spiritual leader struggling with his faith, and his ability to lead others in turbulent political times.
Hey Drew! Excited to find this after having listened to and now (re-listening to!) all of your '80s All Over content and appreciate you making the patreon stuff available now. After I'm done posting here I'm going to sub up for the year because I've been a fan way back since the AICN days. As for what I'm reading it might be better to ask what I'm not reading... Simultaneously and depending on my mood..Nashawaty's Caddyshack book, selections from With Nails, Richard E. Grant's film diaries, Scott Snyder's American Vampire hardcover collection, rereading Fever Pitch by Nick Hornby because I am desperately missing Premier League, intermittently enjoying Gary Janetti's short essay collection, Do you Mind if I Cancel? and just starting Kate Racculia's Bellwether Rhapsody after hearing it recommended on NPR. Can you tell I cut the cord on my cable? 🤔
Sounds like you read like I do. I typically have three or four books going at least, and sometimes more. When I list books in the Friday Spotlight, I only list the books I finished that week. I figure that's the way I tally them.
I’m reading THE NICKEL BOYS by Colson Whitehead
Nice. Haven't read that one yet.
Sorry I'm late to the party. I did some spring cleaning on my MacBook that took all weekend plus an extra day.
I finally bit the bullet and purchased a DCU subscription (though only monthly, as I'm still convinced WB will fold it into HBO Max in some way). The original content (Young Justice and Titans) are good, and I love being able to watch Green Lantern: TAS for the first time. Talk about a show that was cancelled far too soon. From what I understand, it failed because the movie sucked, so no one wanted to watch it. It's a shame, because the show is everything the movie should have been, as is the case about anything Bruce Timm produces.
Mainly though, I've been using the sub to read comics from my youth on my Fire Tablet. It's one of the reasons I didn't get a sub two years ago: no Xbox or Fire Tablet app. Now that they have both, I'm able to read these amazing books I haven't seen in 25 years or more. The Dixon run on Nightwing that began in the mid-90's is FUCKING AMAZING! Marz's relaunch of Green Lantern with Kyle Raynor is also great. While I'll always prefer Johns's Rebirth of Hal Jordan as the one true Lantern, so to speak, I loved reading about Kyle trying to figure everything out mostly on his own when I was a kid, and now I get to read it again. If you love DC Comics back in 90's and early 00's before writing and characters really fell-off during the mostly terrible New 52, I can't recommend a DCU sub enough.
As a child/early-teen, my comic book heroes were Sylvester, The Nebbish, and Alfred E. Newman. I didn't, therefore, read much other works in comics, even the greats.
Finally finished Watchmen over the weekend; inspired to read it as a prelude to either watching the Snyder film, the Lindelof sequel-series, or maybe both. I now know how someone would feel reading Neuromancer for the first time in 2020... not a bad thing, but a combination of "oh, now I know why people like this so much" and "damn, I wish I'd read it during its time."
Context-switching to non-fiction: Fault Lines from Kevin Kruse and Julian Zelizer. Probably might be more depressing now, but I'm very curious how contemporary-of-mine Kruse documents the history we lived through.
Take a “drive” around town w/ your “phone”.
Keeping up with '80s wannabes, I finally caught up with the first 2/3rds or so of "Young Sherlock Holmes" (I saw the back 3rd a while back), one of the great examples of a big-studio tentpole movie so desperate to be The Next Big Thing that it tries to be everything popular at once ON TOP OF what it should be. It's not as bad as "Howard the Duck" or "Van Helsing" or "The Lone Ranger" -- it looks great, it isn't 2+ hours, and I'm pretty sure in some alternate universe Nicholas Rowe became a star -- but it's easy to see why people didn't respond to it in 1985. (Though I am shocked that another would-be tentpole, "Santa Claus the Movie", which admittedly lost far more money, actually posted a bigger box office gross that Christmas -- and I will defend that movie). Also, it's pretty much a template for all the belated prequels we've been getting in recent years, starting with the Star Wars ones.
Being someone who has a tendency to buy DVDs/Blus in order to make sure he has them... and never watches them, let alone open them (DON'T JUDGE ME), I've started doing Unwrapped Cinema.
I've already seen the films, just not seen them on DVD/Blu.
I've watched PRINCE OF DARKNESS and HAYWIRE already, and have nearly twenty more to go! Plus, Shout Factory sale hasn't made it easier!
If you're like me, I highly recommend it as a way to pass time and free the media from their plastic prisons!
Last year I was unemployed for about 8 months. I was on unemployment for most of that time so I fell into a routine that worked for me. I could read and write and watch movies and workout. Really make the most of the free time. Watched tons of movies, read a ton of books, and I got 4 scripts done in that time. I'm back in that routine. I'm working from home, but it's a quick workload and I have plenty of time to do all I want to do. So I'm really just trying to keep myself busy in many ways. Actively engaged or just relaxing. I keep finding myself really blown away by how quickly things can turn around in a year. From the lowest point in my life to actually pretty comfortable, all the while the world around me is burning down. Just an insane cognitive dissonance going on.
I read and loved ARE SNAKES NECESSARY
I actually read it in one sitting which I've never done before in my life
So I watched THE POISON ROSE last night, a Neo-Noir with Travolta and Morgan Freeman and a barely recognizable Brendan Fraser (who nearly stole the movie. THE POISON ROSE is a terrible movie with slumming actors, a lazy script, and leaden Noir narration from John Travolta. (Not to mention the worst hairpiece I've seen in quite some time.) It's got a 0% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and for good reason.
And yet I ate it up. There's something about Noir that speaks to me, sometimes even when the movie is terrible. (And this one really is.) There's something about one capable, tarnished man trying to make good that gets me every time. I can't defend it, I can't explain it, but I can observe it. I really cannot recommend this movie on any level, and yet I enjoyed THE POISON ROSE as much for the genre tropes as anything.
Question: Is this normal? I understand liking a well-crafted movie. I even understand enjoying a fun one which suffers from a lack of craftsmanship. But what is it about specific genre films which satisfy even while the film itself is objectively garbage?
I saw a movie from 2012ish with Jeffrey Dean Morgan called THE COURIER. It was another terrible Neo-Noir film that I couldn't recommend to anyone but which I enjoyed in the watching. It's strange. Does anyone else have a genre you adore despite the relative quality of the film?
Oh, I think there are definitely genres where we'll forgive way more, and it's different for everyone. I am that way with horror. I'll try almost anything looking for gems, and I forgive a lot as long as it's baseline competent.
I tend to be this way with regards to musicals and older (pre-'90s) feature animation, a mixture of my like of the medium and sheer curiosity. I was browsing this thread just as I was catching "Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night", Filmation's 1987 mockbuster (released by New World Pictures!) on Pluto TV. It's pretty awful, but it's an amusing kind of awful as the filmmakers desperately try to transcend the limitations of the budget and their talents. Also, Rickie Lee Jones's attempt at acting as the voice of the Good Fairy is unintentional comedy gold, and the second half basically turning into the kiddie version of "Forbidden Zone" (much the way you described the dream sequence in "Heidi's Song" as the G-rated version of the reshot "Night Wind") with some "Legend" mixed in is fun too. Once again, I'm reminded of how much I miss 80s All Over because you and Scott would have had a ball tearing into this one for the December 1987 episode. Funny -- it came out the same month as "Empire of the Sun" and "The Last Emperor". Were emperors/empires just trendy in 1987 and I missed it at the age of 9?
"The missing person he’s trying to locate is an old lady whom he believes is held against her will in a sanitarium run by a pulchritudinous replica of what used to be Brendan Fraser. He plays a crooked doctor who runs a methadone lab and kills off half the town with bad drugs."
https://observer.com/2019/05/the-poison-rose-review-john-travolta-rex-reed/